Grace Community Church's lawsuit "seeks to prohibit California from enforcing its unconstitutional and onerous coronavirus pandemic regulations." Link copied Aug. 14, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC And some community groups are less intense. I am praying for you in San Diego CA. Todd loves and worships money and attention. The reengage curriculum and groups were excellent! Leventhal doesnt seem very interested in this whole thing Wagner appears attentive during Leventhals speech but Leventhal seems stand-offish toward Wagner. indoor plumbing plumbing would be a luxury. He is a restorer and a life giver, even as we ALL come to him seeking forgiveness. As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying. Its upto Him. Ill also go into more detail about how Watermark Church does resemble a cult, and how some of their teachings are harmful and potentially abusive. I went home and felt a renewed sense of spirit. Im also a bit a sad with respond of David (elder) who is in the leadership role to show the love with staring at the congregation (may be because of challenges). In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. This is a quality and important post. -. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. Dont need the large meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them. I first visited Watermark in 2005 when they were still meeting at a high school in Dallas. Its all sunshine and roses till you see it firsthand. If you dont want to share about your finances you dont have to. I assured those who wanted to speak out with their stories that I would not identify them or use any details in my post that could be used to identify them. Eight-time Top 100 Places to Work winner Watermark Community Church finds that patience is a virtue Church kept the faith and finds itself on top of the list after 7 consecutive . Former Pastor Accused of Rape Resigns from Churchome After TRR Investigation; Church Official Makes False Claims, Arkansas Youth Pastor Pleads Guilty to 13 Counts of Sexual Assault, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Shamed, Excommunicated Mother for Refusing to Take Back Child Abuser, Days-long Revival Sweeping Asbury University in Kentucky, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Covered Up Pastors Sexual Abuse, Witnesses Say, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthurs Church Supported Convicted Child Abuser & Pedophile, Records Show, Dante Bowe Posts, Then Removes, Apology for Behavior Causing Split with Maverick City Music, Matt Chandler Steps Aside After Admitting Inappropriate Online Relationship, John MacArthur Pulls Out of Ligonier Conference, Pastor Resigns From Houston Megachurch After Admitting Affair, Televangelist Creflo Dollar Renounces Past Teachings on Tithing, But Questions Persist. I was informed that this was a gift from a wealthy individual who has known Todd a long time and does not attend Watermark. When I received the email from *Susan (pseudonym), a former Watermark Church member, she wrote, I am not the only former Watermarker out there who is nervous to speak up about this organization, because I refuse to call them a church.. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. It is all about leveraging God not for the good of the people but for bragging rights about how successful they are. Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. Reminds me exactly like Steven Furtick and many other pastors. I was a messed up kid at that time and Todd was the worst counselor ever. He walked with an air of superiority that was disgusting. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. I have first hand experience with a senior pastor doing exactly this and teaching younger families how to properly budget and cost of having kids. You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. I dont think so. The only fees were for the materials we used. The Dallas ISD board of trustees approved the sale in late August; records show Watermark paid $211,000 for nine acres of building and bare land off Second Avenue a steal, no matter the. Todd portrays it all as a divine God told me sort of thing. trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Small group of meeting once a week. Perfectly said Scottie. Not to mention that even if the words are perfect its up to the listeners as to how they interpret it. The man and woman had been accused by the man's wife and by the church of being romantically involved. In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. Forgot account? covenant, In the Bible, can you name Poor Todd. You cant find any. You CANNOT, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline. These overly dramatic talks tend to make me feel like Im not spiritual enough or theyre covering up something. For much of Wagners speech in the video, Leventhal did not look at Wagner, but stared straight ahead. Both of these practices are, in my opinion, unhealthy. AGAIN, I have absolutely NO proof and its pure speculation. David (elder) Himself had lot to grow in area of discernment, the way he is reacting isnt ok either. Oh, I wouldnt be so sure of that. This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. Andrew Bhatia The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. Of course, God has a very different definition of success than we do. i watched the video dont know how i got as far as i did i had to turn it off. But not everyone wants that, and for those people there are lots of other churches that offer community groups, small groups, life groups, etc. I think one can probably make a case for it using Scripture, but I think Elder-Rule ignores the Scriptural precedence of independent accountability: In terms of two doctrinal statements, what this does is set up an inner ring of people who more closely align with the beliefs of the church (and by church, I mean elders). Take Your Power Back we all know many invested their heart and lives into this place, only to be punished and abused when their performance was not up to the public image WM wanted society to perceive of their organization. The only remaining elders at Watermark are Mickey Friedrich and Kyle Thompson, though a third man, Blake Holmes, has been named a candidate for eldership. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. You may be thinking of a different Todd Wagner, who is a longtime partner of Mark Cuban. See more of Watermark Community Church on Facebook. Considering thatRead more , Dave It is disingenuous to minimize someone elses experience just because you did not witness it yourself. As you should be. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). All Campuses . There are way more people that will speak well about Todd versus these handful of comments. Who Will Pay for the SBCs Abuse Reforms Over the Long Term? Thats a new one on me. Or you perfect? What does all white and all males have to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation? Regardless I loved your passion and pray that Holy Spirit would cover you and lead you in the area that needs correction. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. The state of California and Los Angeles have agreed to pay $800,000 in legal fees to settle their lawsuit with John MacArthur's church over COVID-19 lockdown rules. I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. Another $ maker? Kind of smarmy too., You use some strong name calling, words Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). Some of the most notable settlements are described below. Todd uses God to accomplish his goals ofRead more , We briefly visited WM; I quickly told my husband, this place is the cult of Todd and will implode without him. Thats not Todds fault, but no thanks. Ashley Ruiz alleges in a lawsuit that a member of the International Churches of Christ sexually molested her when she was . Childcare was free. In principle it was excellent. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. . My perception is this former member did take their concerns to leadership. Positional authority deals with executing responsibilities within an organization, like a general in an army, the president of bank, or the pastor of a church. The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). This is a big problem if the teaching statement isnt clearly explained in the membership process members may find themselves in a church where they dont believe or adhere to the teaching statement thus disqualifying them from an elder position or, at the least, making them feel like a second-tier member. business Top 100. Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. But, we ALL should be. 4774 square feet also poor stewardship unless hes raising 8 kids or something. As a result, at least 19 diocese and religious orders have had to file for bankruptcy. If I thought I couldnt work with someone I wouldnt be turning around and working with them. It is a long process to leave unless you just dont fill out the yearly form. (although my personal view is a modest lifestyle is best for all, and all things considered,). Wow. We've put together a list of some ways . that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. Thats for God to reveal or conceal. He added that there are just too many layers and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here., Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus, though the church said it is proactively pursuing men to add to the Elder team., According to the church website, Wagner and Leventhal will spend time with their families preparing for whatever the Lord has next.. Synopsis of the case is as follows. Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. I automatically defended the leaders and staff, and also automatically discredited the victims with pre determined notions the victim was not telling the whole story. Wagner said he is excited about what God is going to do at the church in its next season and urged the congregation to obey their leaders. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. that is, if we keep Jesus Christ as part of the equation, with an understanding that more is incumbent on leaders than on others. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). .. .amazing. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! Wagner is all about control and he lost it. Yet, Mickey Friedrich says: [dont] try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong, and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here.. Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! a smarmy, unctuous reply. According to the membership covenant, a member is not free to leave the church, but must formally withdraw membership under one of three acceptable circumstances: 1. Even through this challenges we can be so judgements these day. Todd especially. So you think women are getting a little uppity and having ideas above their station?. Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. Gotcha. The reason for this is because, as an elder, he will be responsible for teaching others. Watermark Church is certainly not alone in taking a stance against homosexuality. Church leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege. Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. Theres a lot of talk and a lot of Christianese language, but its still impossible to say exactly what happened or exactly what is and was going on. The Yelp algorithm is strange. First and foremost- this is a season that God is shaking things up. Paul, thanks for the response. I know him on a first name basis, as I do some of those elders on the stage. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . 1 Pet 2:25 Aside from the fact that it was gifted to him (alarming at the very least) it shows poor stewardship and lack of humility on Wagners part. utterly un-credible. No wonder the process of disciplining and removing an elder within this structure is so dysfunctional theres no independent accountability. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. in ones own city or metropolis, for starters. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. Evangelical Church. I went back several times others preached but werent as good holding an audiences attention as Todd Wagner and the full content with historical and life referces and quoting scripture just wasnt there like Todd Wagner.. then they said Watermark Plano was becoming its own church. Why wouldnt they just tell the church what happened? We know a number of people who attend Watermark due to our 10 year stay in dallas. He has people who fund his life so no donations are used for that purpose and so he can fully focus on running the mission.. do you have knowledges that Todd is spending money frivolously? Darren, I think I get where youre coming from with the idea of a teaching statement. I went to a church with a broadly evangelical membership statement coupled with a specifically Calvinistic, and specifically young earth creationist, teaching statement. Theyre not only going to write you off but theyll make sure your entire community group does too.Read more , [] of absence in September 2020 to work on prideful sin that was increasingly becoming visible to church members. I take at face value Susan has hurt and I feel compassion for her. Sure, we made friends with our peers in the class and had fun at summer camp, and it all developed out of normal human interaction. Worth 1-2 million. Hes not the pastor of Watermark. Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. Not now. 5,280 were here. Also I probably would be off my depression meds. There was one guy that didnt want to shareRead more . Izael who are you to judge someone elses experience? Great! Demands full disclosure of finances in church groups, but having a hard time finding his. He counseled my former fiance and after several meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. I have however heard Todd Wagner say from the pulpit if youre not comfortable giving here thats ok, please give somewhere meaningful to you. Watermark might want the groups to be run a certain way, but that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules. In January of 2014 (when child in question was 17) we approached Watermark Church with the information that member Anita Prevett Smith had lied an affidavit to the State Attorney General regarding child support in the amount of $16, 054, lied about $1, 200 of . Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said.. One of our trusted partners, Elam Ministries, is currently working with its local churches in Turkey to help provide food, blankets, tents, and other basic supplies. How do you know Todd pays that? Appreciate your response! I wish he was still there and I know I would be living nearby and attending with spirit filled days and nights studying what he preached. I bet some of you, dont attend or are part of the church, Jealousy amongst many of you I can smell from here. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. There is a filthy rich entrepreneur whose name is Todd Wagner. In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. I dont know folks.if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke! I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. Friends, theres a lot of speculation here. When this article was written, | Grace Community Church. Remember the verse when most friends depart, there is one who stays closer then the brother. If I had to guess the Sr Pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to resign. Seems there are some Watermark menbers Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus. Ive never heard of nor attended a church with such a position. What you need to know about Church Membership Covenants., The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, The Aftermath Part II: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Family Ties: How Watermark Community Church is Alienating Families. We could look to God's Word for the answers. You are experienced and know your Bible and subject. He hides behind the church to bully people whether in the church or outside. Love you Todd Susan says she is now happy to be away from Watermark Church and is healing. on The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members, Youth Volunteer at The Village Church Confesses to Sexual Abuse of Minors. Pastor Todd Wagner, abuse. Since November, it appears two other Watermark elders have left the original board of six menBrian Buchek and Beaut Fournet. Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. It was a class before the main church service where people around the same age as you sat in a room, listened to a bible lesson, maybe interacted a bit, shared prayer requests, took up a small offering, held hands and said a closing prayer. This gives freedom to members who may still be working through some of their beliefs while also holding the elders to a higher standard. If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. Ill meet you. seems to me median, or less, is reasonable (relative to the community where the church exists). Opinion: What is Revivaland is it Happening at Asbury? The elder team is interdependent of each other, creating a system in which it is impossible or highly difficult to discipline or remove any one elder. Its all based on financial packages and NDAs now. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. I think you may have missed a decimal point according to the link in the post his house (verified to be the correct Todd Wagner) was a little over $1.5 million as of 2019. Im not saying that the Watermark Todd Wagner lives in a shack, by any means. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! And, have peace and unity. It is very helpful and lets us plan financially well. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. As soon as I saw the pastor lived in a 15 million dollar house, that was it for me. You may have the last word if you wish. Read More. What a bizarre statement. And then they agree to work on the same board? I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members. What Happens Now? BUT are now returned to Elder-Rule governance removes any hope of independent accountability the elders are originally self-appointed and thereafter elder-appointed. For ye were as *sheep going astray;* Watermark Church is a popular, non-denominational church in the Dallas area which has about 11,000 members. Watermark Church does not believe that single ladies & gentlemen should be in coed community groups. Agreed. I expect to see Todd again, doing the same things in the future hell probably run another church the same way he intended to run Watermark. Regardless Lords will be done Prov 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. Their countenances in the video departure statements appear to be quite different. If you challenged him or the church you were quickly dismissed. +++++++++++++++++. And having ideas above their station? this challenges we can be judgements! Headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit would cover you and lead you in Bible... To someone else to be run a certain way, but that doesnt mean group. 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( top 20 ) and its nowhere near a cult demands full disclosure of finances in church groups but! Preached the gospel boldly and consistently yearly form there was one guy that didnt want to share about finances... Hes raising 8 kids or something not to mention that even if the leadership watermark church lawsuit! Seems to me median, or less, is reasonable ( relative to the Community where the what..., which she was be done Prov 16:9 the heart of man plans his,... In 2005 when they were still meeting at a high school in Dallas with Julie and get in! But are now returned to Elder-Rule governance removes any hope of independent accountability elders.